Rewind: Philip Marshall on “Introspective”

In discussion with Philip Marshall about the album “Introspective” by the Pet Shop Boys (1988).

There is plenty to choose from in the history of the Pet Shop Boys, why did you pick this album?

It’s all about time, and my personal trajectory. In late 88 I was 16, going on 17… And life was unfurling before me. No longer trapped in suburbia, I was spending increasing times in London Town, growing up, and learning all about myself – clubbing and all that entails included. I dug deep into London’s rich vein of “equity culture”, and quickly discovered my late teenage was perfectly in sync with the most exciting of explosions in music culture since post-punk. At this time, lines were blurred. I made a commitment to myself, and sold off hundreds of indie vinyl down the Notting Hill record & tape exchange in order to fund my new-found love of nightlife and the music coupled to it. No mop-headed moaning guitar drivel would ever sully my collection again (or, so I thought back then…). An end to teenage angst, sold by the crate-load. Out with the gloom. In with 808 State, Electribe 101 and never ending weekends… But, the electronic pop I had loved when young stayed with me…

I think it is safe to say that they wanted to do something different from their first two albums. How do you place this in the output of the Pet Shop Boys?

It’s all about timing – “Introspective” was released that November, when my introspection first ended. A thread – from a pop past, to a future life. For them, it was a definite embrace of the then fresh house culture that Europe had plunged into – a relatively brave move for an established pop act and before others, such as ABC, jumped that train… As far as placing in their personal timeline, well one of the things I love about this album is its single-minded stance. Although the songwriting and lyricism is as strong as what went before and what was to come, its formatting, arrangement and structure was wilfully, almost arrogantly, other. Here was a group having number one hits in Europe and the USA, coming off the back of two consecutive number ones, and returning with a release that 1.) was six tracks long, 2.) comprised of extended mixes, 3.) didn’t have their image on the cover, 4.) was oblique, lyrically, in parts… The confidence and, presumably, freedom from EMI’s meddling that their earlier success lent them, afforded them the space to make an other statement. A few weeks ago, I was tearing through the English countryside with Jon Wozencroft , on our way to a Suffolk performance. His car had a cassette player, and we were rifling through his old tape collection. “Introspective” was played. We agreed; it is the “Sgt. Pepper” of house – the sound of a band at the peak of its popularity stretching and flexing its remit without fear of a crash. Read the rest of this entry »

Rewind: Terre Thaemlitz on “Dazzle Ships”

In discussion with Terre Thaemlitz about the album “Dazzle Ships” by Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark (1983).

A lot of interesting electronic music was produced in 1983, the year “Dazzle Ships” was released. What drew you to Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark, and this album in particular?

To be honest, I don’t recall exactly how I came to own this record. I think it was probably the usual budgetary situation where I had heard about OMD, I wanted to buy a record to check them out, and “Dazzle Ships” was the cheapest album to buy. As a teen, my record collection was built on unpopular records from the $1.00 bin. This was economically unavoidable. It also meant my point of entry for a lot of bands was through their “commercial flops”. And as an “outsider” who did not fit in with others and was therefore a flop of sorts myself, I found resonance with these failures at assimilation. Gary Numan’s “Dance” is a brilliant example – thinking back, to be 13 years old in Springfield, Missouri, and really into that album, it really signifies a kind of social isolation. A “normal” or “healthy” 13 year old could not be into that album. Impossible. So I believe this entire process of arriving at an album like “Dazzle Ships” must never be reduced to a simple matter of taste. It’s tied to issues of economics, class, socialization… in the US it is also tied to race and the divide between “black music” and “white music,” etc.

With this album, OMD experimented with elements beyond their Pop abilities, like shortwave recordings, sound collages and cold war/eastern bloc imagery. How would you describe the concept of this album?

I think “Architecture & Morality” already introduced a lot of those elements. I don’t know for sure, but as a producer myself I imagine this is partly related to the emergence of better sampling technology. They could use samplers to play back all kinds of sound elements, rather than being limited to synths and multi-track recording. I also imagine, drawing from my own experiences, that “Dazzle Ships” (like Numan’s “Dance”) represents a crisis in their relationships to their record labels and Pop music generally. A crisis with capitalism, the demand for sales, demand for audio conformity… and in this way the socialist imagery of the album is perhaps a reflection of their struggling against these processes. I remember reading some article – which I have no idea if it was trustworthy or not, but – it talked about the tremendous pressure labels put on OMD to become more Pop. I believe they were asked to finally decide if they wanted to be the new “Abba” or not, and if so, to change their style accordingly. This was a brutal trend in UK new wave. It destroyed the Eurythmics, The Human League, Gary Numan, OMD, Depeche Mode, and on and on… These are all UK bands, all extremely influential, and all totally boring in the end. Very few groups came out of these struggles for the better – one exception being Talk Talk, who did abandon their synth sound but became something marvelously unmarketable in another way. All of these New Wave bands had to become Rock bands capable of penetrating the US market, blah, blah – dumb American Dreams. Techno-Pop was dismissed as a fad by industry, and the artists seem to have gotten swept up in the hype of possible “success”. Ironically, of course, even if they got a brief flash of super-Pop success they alienated their core fans who had been drawn to them as other than Pop. I know I felt extremely betrayed. I still do, at age 41. When I was young, it was a personal betrayal, now it strikes me as a cultural betrayal. I could be totally wrong, but I guess for me, all of this feeds into the concept of “Dazzle Ships”, the title being a reference to massive battle ships. The idea of sending this album afloat in the marketplace, poised to attack and conquer as the label wants – but stylistically it also clearly sabotages any prospect of popularity. I think it was OMD’s attack on the labels that released it – a final kick in resistance before transforming into the Pop band that produced “Junk Culture” (although it could have also been a tremendous extension of A&R pampering in which the label let their artists run amuck – but that is so much less inspiring to me). And you have to forgive me, coming from the US, I have no idea how these records operated in Europe. I can imagine they got radio play. But not in the US. So my view is slanted by this. In the US these were all anti-Pop albums with no airplay, except in a few major cities. They had to be hunted down. And this camouflaged cover, in a way, also carried this metaphor of a product hidden in the marketplace, hard to find, elusive. But present. I like this metaphor – it predates the queer motto “We are everywhere” by a good number of years. Read the rest of this entry »

Rewind: Jorge Socarras on “You Forgot To Answer”

In discussion with Jorge Socarras about “You Forgot To Answer” by Nico, from the album “The End” (1974).

What makes this song so special for you? Are there personal experiences involved or is it more a decision of musical taste?

For me a song that is truly special effects a seamless conflation of aesthetic and subjective elements. The combination allows me, as listener, to at the same time admire and experience the song. We could say that it blurs the distinction between objective and subjective, balances the either/or of the question. This is precisely what I find so special about “You Forgot To Answer”.

Nico seemed to be very determined and uncompromising with what she wanted to do as an artist. How would you place this song in her musical history?

I see this song as representing the pinnacle of her musical achievement. The artistic promise that she showed on “Chelsea Girl” and “The Velvet Underground with Nico” is at “The End” stage fully realized. Not to say that these early achievements aren’t beautiful and worthwhile – on the contrary. But her artistry is most unmistakably individuated and formidable on “The End” album, especially in “You Forgot To Answer”. That uncompromising quality you mention is so articulated and refined in this song that one could almost interpret it as a refutal of her earlier, more celebrity-identified persona (or personas). John Cale, of course, played no small part in Nico’s coming to artistic maturation. Their creative relationship was so evidently mutually inspiring – she playing muse, he Svengali. She was the ideal songstress and he the ideal arranger for the quite serious music they envisioned. Read the rest of this entry »

Playing Favourites: Soundstream

> Love Unlimited Orchestra – Welcome Aboard (1981)

I found it interesting that this record sounded already a bit like what Metro Area were doing later on.

It is a very unusual track, especially for the time it was produced. There was not a lot then sounding like this. It almost has a housey touch, and a very beautiful atmosphere.

The track title is very telling, it is the perfect way to start a set.

Exactly, we did a show for betalounge.com once with Smith N Hack and used this as the first track.

The sound is very romantically space-like. Is this something you look for in disco? Some kind of futuristic touch?

Well, here it is a feature that definitely attracts me. I also like that it is so reduced. I like tracks that are special and unusual, like this. It is very straight, there is not too much happening in it.

Barry White kind of transformed his symphonic kitsch into something completely different with this production.

The beat almost sounds like it was sampled, very strange. I think it is a warm up bomb.

Your productions are normally not associated with sounds this mellow.

Yes, but this has this certain straightness to it, and I always like that. They hold this sequence for the whole track and just add strings and vocals, and the beat just goes on.

> El Coco – Cocomotion (1977)

This goes right back to your first Sound Stream 12”. I found it interesting that you just used a tiny weird loop, instead of its catchy bassline.

Yes, I often just get hooked on single parts and sample them. “Motion” was more like an edit. It is just a loop which then gets chopped up a bit. I like the loop because it holds the tension for so long, it’s very trippy.

But it is a very special approach to editing. You certainly were not aiming for authenticity or better DJ use.

It is kind of how it started. The first re-edits in Chicago for example. They looped bits and extended them until they developed a hypnotic quality. I think Ron Hardy initiated that. He rode a loop for several minutes and after a while it just sucked you in. This repetition also goes back to James Brown. His band played a riff for a while, then a break came on, and then it started all over again.

So you decidedly edit music to achieve a track-like quality?

Yes, definitely. With nearly all my productions I try to last long with little, and it is the same with other music I like. Simple tracks that don’t need much to hold attention for quite some time, instead of losing that after half a minute.

I remember hearing a Ron Hardy set a while ago, where he extended just the break part of Isaac Hayes “I Can’t Turn Around” for ages.

Yes, they reissued that tape edit recently. It sparked early house, like “Love Can’t Turn Around”. It is basically the same, they took the tape loop and replayed it with synthesizers, and some additional bassline and piano.

What do you think of edits that keep the arrangement of the original and just tweak the beats?

No. Something new has to be created in the process of editing. And as a DJ, I’d rather take a real drummer and fight my way through the timing. It’s funkier than a streamlined edit. That makes no sense to me. It’s okay if you have track with a wonderful part in it and then a break follows with guitars or something else you just don’t want to have. But an edit ultimately has to lead to something new.

Do you make edits for your sets?

I did a few. But they are secret. Read the rest of this entry »

Playing Favourites: Till von Sein

> Backroom Productions – Definition Of A Track ( New York Underground Records) 1988

A rare tune from 1987. Indeed nothing but a track.

I knew this from the vinyl edition of the DJ-Kicks by Terranova. At that time it fit right in with what they were trying to represent with that compilation. I used to play this track regularly back then, it was very good for warming up.

So you actually know this for quite some time then.

Yeah, of course! I was not into Terranova that much, but the compilation had some brilliant tracks on it. East Flatbush Project and such.

This has some kind of Hip Hop vibe to it, too. But it does not exactly sound like 1988.

No, and I didn’t know that (laughs).

Would you still play it?

Definitely. I don’t know when and for what occasion but it is a class track.

It somehow reminds me of the bonus beats they used to have on the flipside of old House records.

Yeah, but bonus beats have gone out of fashion a bit, apart from Hip Hop. Argy had some for that Sydenham track “Ebian” on Ibadan last year. But I think it is not really relevant anymore for the current generation of House producers.

The percussive elements really distinguish the sound of that era from today’s productions. Lots of handclaps, or here it’s rimshots.

My problem is that I don’t really like all these percussion sounds from drum machines. I prefer sampled real instruments. This is probably some classic Roland drum machine, like a 606. I would take the bassdrum and hi-hats from somewhere else. The toms of these old machines are always cool, but the bongo sounds for example are not for me. I wouldn’t use that for my productions. I couldn’t do these 100 % authentic references. I think it’s supercool to listen to in a Prosumer record for example, but I couldn’t do that.

You got qualms about doing something like that?

No (laughs)! I’m just working on a new track for which I sampled an old Amen-break. I don’t care, if I like it I use it. This kind of break is in 90 % of all Drum and Bass tracks and nobody cares, so I don’t care either.

> Phortune – Unity (Jack Trax) 1988

This is an old track by DJ Pierre, from his Acid House days. But it is different to most tracks he produced back then. It is pretty deep.

It’s great. Awesome vibe for 1988, I could listen to this all day. It doesn’t tranquilize my feet, it’s not boring, it’s perfectly right. And I would grin from ear to ear if I would hear this in a club.

Some of its sounds have aged really well.

I really like this. I think it’s a pity that there are not so many tracks with great basslines at the moment. There are a lot of simple, functional basslines without much of a melody. Of course it’s effective and some current tracks need some of these dominating, functional elements, but a track like this for example needs a bit more, and I miss that. It’s also simple, but it has more and different harmonies. I like that, it gets me hooked. I would love to buy this on Beatport (laughs)!

Yes, that could be difficult. Read the rest of this entry »

Playing Favourites: Quarion

> Sound Dimension – Granny Scratch Scratch (Soul Jazz)

This is a 70’s reggae track by Jackie Mittoo. It’s almost Minimal, very basic.

True. It’s got some Techno appeal, it’s just rhythm. That’s what I like about this Dub stuff, there are so many things you can recognize that were used later on in electronic music like House and Techno. Dub was so important for that.

So these ancient production techniques are still valid? There seems to be a direct line from Jamaica to today’s productions.

Yeah, I listen to Dub. I don’t listen to a lot, but I like some of it. But I like to use the state of mind of Dub in my music. It’s more a musician thing. I like to use the techniques of it. I’m getting more into the music, too. It’s amazing, the way they were mixing the bass and the drums in the 70’s. Really crazy.

They also put some emphasis on just doing tracks, not songs.

It really is the basis of what came afterwards, from Hip Hop to House to Techno. Drum and Bass also, of course. They all took elements from Dub, that’s really interesting.

> Yukihiro Takahashi – Walking To The Beat (Pick Up Records)

The next one is by Yellow Magic Orchestra’s Yukihiro Takahashi. A Synthpop track.

It is interesting. It has this kind of proto-House feeling. What I really liked was this crazy soprano sax solo at the end. It is almost like Free Jazz, for 30 or 40 seconds, and then it stops. That was quite bold.

I think he actually wanted to do some kind of pop hit though. The singer on this record is the one from the 80’s pop group Icehouse for example. But for a pop hit it is probably too weird.

I think the harmonies are built up quite traditionally, but this solo part really surprised me. It is almost like New York ‘s Post Punk era. Trying some new crazy stuff.

Maybe you should use some sax solo in a House track.

Well, I used to play sax in the past.

Really?

Yeah, for a long time. But I kind of really got tired of the sound and I don’t think I’m going to use it. But you never know. I started playing Alto Saxophone when I was 13 years old. I had tried piano a few years ago, but I wasn’t so much into it. I don’t remember why I chose saxophone, but I remember I wanted to do a wind instrument. With the saxophone, I learned to play jazz and I absolutely loved it! I began rehearsing with a few bands, mostly Jazz or Funk groups. When I discovered DJing, I was instantly hooked and I started playing less and less saxophone, until I quit around 2001. DJing, collecting and discovering music became more important for me. I dabbled into production around 1996, but got a home studio setup two years later. I remember that my main reason for producing was that I found that certain records were lacking something or were arranged in a way that I thought was not so effective. I was thinking “Hmm, the producer should have put this part first” or “the chord there doesn’t sound nice although the beat is dope”. After a while I just thought I should make my own tracks.

I remember that a lot of the early Deep House tracks used the same sax sound. Really flat and synthetic. They seldom used a real saxophone, always this cheap sound effect.

Yeah, terrible. Read the rest of this entry »

Playing Favourites: Shed

White Noise – Black Mass: Electric Storm In Hell

This is very early electronic music, from White Noise’s first album from 1969. They were among the first to use synthesizers in a rock context and their music became very influential later on. This particular track seems indeed way ahead of its contemporaries, and it is pretty wild.

I didn’t know that at all. I had problems listening through it, it is almost disturbing. From today’s point of view it maybe is not that overtly experimental anymore, but setting it into the time of its production, it is very cool.

There certainly was not much comparable music back then.

The sound is very good. They already had synthesizers? There is a lot of space in the production. If you would not have told me, I would never have guessed that it is so old. The arrangement and the noisy parts reminded me of destructed Amen breaks, totally distorted. Very interesting.

Quartz – Chaos

The next one is by Quartz from France . Also early synthesizer music, but within a disco context.

I was not into that at all. My calendar does not really start before 1990 or so. Even stuff like early Model 500, Cybotron, it is ok, but it’s not mine. I also can’t get into Kraftwerk. What has been called techno from 1990 on was what got me to listen to music consciously for the first time. I was never the one to check the influences on music that I like. I know Disco only from TV, Saturday Night Fever and such. I was never really interested in it.

Is that based on a basic antipathy towards the sounds of disco music?

There was a short period I found it exciting, around the time the filter and cut-up disco house arrived with DJ Sneak, all the sample stuff. But that was over pretty soon when all the records started to sound the same. So yes, it is based on principle that I don’t like the sounds too much.

So you were more interested in how a track was built on samples than where they came from?

Exactly. It was fascinating to me how all could be said in a loop that went for three minutes, if it was a cool one. Longer than that it could get boring. Of course you can’t compare that to what happens in the original disco track, there was more happening there than in house tracks, which only used bits. It was interesting that many people used the same samples and you became aware that there must some source for it. But sample based productions are not my philosophy. I never wanted to just use bits of other people’s music.

Those disco house records also did not always pay tribute to disco, they deconstructed it, and often in a not very respectful manner.

Not at all. It’s strange how American producers often deal with each other, all that stealing amongst themselves. But in the end we all benefited from that (laughs). Read the rest of this entry »

Playing Favourites: Daniel Wang

> Ennio Morricone – Rodeo

This is from an old French movie soundtrack, „Le Casse“. I picked this for the string arrangement, because it puts a lot of emphasis on build-up, thus linking to the way Disco producers arranged strings for climactic dancefloor moments.

To be honest, I muss confess I don’t know Morricone’s works so well. I don’t think I have been a really big fan, partially because I don’t know it so well. My first impression of this track, which I didn’t know, was that it’s a formal composition. In my head I make a distinction between pop music, which has almost very definite rules, and people following it like Abba. It’s not formulaic, but there are very basic chord progressions that are based on Blues and Jazz that you can do in pop music and that have their own logic and their own progression. Many pop songs are actually the same song. “Good Times” by Chic is one kind of groove and twenty other songs sound exactly like it. It could be “Rapture” by Blondie or something. That’s pop music writing. And then you have soundtrack music writing and it has a different logic. It doesn’t have to follow a certain progression like in pop music, which has a reason and an impulse that keeps on pushing the song forward. When I heard this I thought it is a very good example of soundtrack music writing where you don’t really have to explain the logic of the chord progression, it just sets a mood. It makes an ambience. I think this is probably from 1967 to 71.

Good guess, it’s from 1971.

Because from 1972 on you start getting the big multi-track stuff, like Philly Disco and the more sophisticated pop, and this still sounds relatively simple. My first impression was it’s like a slightly cheaper copy of Burt Bacharach’s “Raindrops Keep Fallin’ On My Head”, but with more drama. It has some very formal devices, like it’s basically a minor key. But at some points he plays the same theme but he opens it up with a major key.

Lately all this beautifully orchestrated obscure library music back is popping up again and people scan back catalogues for songs groovy enough to suit a Disco context.

Yeah, that’s interesting, and I think there is a good reason for that. There is such a thing as real music, in the sense that there were people who did music for films, like Ennio Morricone, or Giorgio Moroder, with a more naïve use of the rules, or the very sophisticated Henry Mancini, or Alec Constandinos, or Vangelis, or Jean-Michel Jarre. All these people were obviously classically trained and they followed the rules. It doesn’t really matter if it’s a Bossa Nova, 60’s GoGo or a Disco beat, the rules of the music don’t change. I think that is why everybody is going back now to find real music. When people like Masters At Work appeared in the 90’s, people who didn’t know anything about the basic rules of music started making music. That’s why it sounds so awful, haha. A lot of the DJ produced music doesn’t have its own intrinsic logic and sense. And chords, progression and melodies have that intrinsic logic. That’s what’s been missing. So everyone of this generation who wants to find out what is really musical has to go back to the 60’s and 70’s, and there you find it everywhere actually.

> Carter Burwell – Blood Simple

This is from the soundtrack of the Coen Brothers debut film “Blood Simple”.

It’s from the 80’s I suppose.

Yes, it’s from 1987. It’s a mood piece with a synthetic feel to it.

I found the orchestration is simpler, but it’s similar to the previous song. Again, it’s not a pop song with intrinsic deep logic. Like Bach’s “Air On The G-String”, that is also some kind of pop music because it has a very definite logic. This one has a formal piano theme that sounds a bit like Erik Satie. Simple chord, simple melody, a little bit like Mozart’s “Eine kleine Nachtmusik”. It is not original, it is a formal piece, it follows a form that other people have created.

You could maybe alter its logic by just putting a beat under it, and by not adding much you would have a really moody dance track.

Yeah, actually this is the thing. To be honest, and many people are going to hate me for saying this, I’m not a big fan of Portishead. It’s very easy to make a mood piece. Anybody can do it. All you have to do is take a minor key and play some stuff over it, doesn’t really matter what. I think Portishead never even use a major key (laughs).

They don’t have to, really.

Yes. I think anybody writing good music should move between major and minor keys, that’s part of the magic. Since we now accept that some people make mood music, you can have a whole album of just melancholy. Personally, that doesn’t move me at all and I don’t find it very interesting. I think a lot of people in this generation think that this is a valid way to do music, for me it’s not enough. Salsoul records only have two or three keys but they do it so well, there are so many nuances.

I think the problem is that many people think they can only sound deep by using minor keys.

Yes, you’re right. That’s very true. If it’s not melancholy and it’s not moody then it’s not deep. Which is not true. That’s very profound what you just said. Read the rest of this entry »

Manifesto

Mediocrity is not a virtue.

There is a direct connection between the devaluation of music and artistic irresponsibility.

Status won’t necessarily last longer by being fully exploited.

Every trend you follow is trend less you could set.

For every older record you may disrespect, there is a blueprint you may imitate.

Every preset you use is an idea less that you could develop on your own.

If a virus wipes out every preset in existence, you might have to stop producing.

If you change your musical style, you could consider using the one you just left behind on the one you get into.

For every edit you make that just streamlines the original material, there is a DJ is capable of using just the original material you just deleted in the process.

Don’t release something that you won’t care about in the near future. You may block somebody who does.

You would be better off investing all you can afford into the mastering, distribution and design of the release you totally believe in, than investing the least possible into mastering, distribution and design of all the other releases you don’t really believe in.

Mixing is overrated; selection is not.

The performance aspects of digital DJing are alarmingly disproportionate to the convenience aspects of digital DJing.

Charts and playlists don’t oblige, they just give examples.

If you don’t earn enough money by DJing, you will not necessarily earn more if you start to produce.

If you don’t earn enough money by producing, you will not necessarily earn more if you start to DJ.

If you don’t earn enough money by producing and DJing, you will not necessarily earn more if you start a label.

There are more phrases to illustrate a positive feedback than “full support,” “top tune,” and “will play.”

Your demo as a Sendspace link in the MySpace inbox of the label of your choice will not give the impression that there is some thought behind your choice.

If you are not in the mood to party, stay in.

Pitchfork 07/08

Interview: Hercules & Love Affair

You managed to get in the spotlight pretty quickly on the back of strong singles on DFA records. Can you shed some light on the project and how it came to fruition?

The project has been developing over a couple of years. I have written music since childhood, and started collaborating with friends on electronic music projects in college. Antony from Antony & The Johnsons tracked some vocals for the Hercules project as long as four years ago. About a year and a half ago, Daniel Wang, a good friend and mentor to me suggested I present the music to DFA. He set up a meeting with them for me, and the rest is history.

How did the collaborations come about? How and why did you pick the people to work with?

The collaborations occurred quite organically, through friendships. Antony and I were friends for a while before we recorded “Blind”. Kim Ann and I as well, before “Classique” or “Athene”. And Nomi, I knew for a while before having her record for me as well. So, historically it has been about using the voices in my personal life. Read the rest of this entry »