The work on your book on Arthur Russell, “Hold On To Your Dreams”, has probably made you quite an expert on his works, but when was actually the first time you heard “Go Bang! #5″? Was it the song as a single, or did you hear it in the context of the whole “24 – 24 Music” album?
I first heard François Kevorkian’s remix of “Go Bang! #5” when I bought the “Spaced Out: Ten Original Disco Funk Grooves” back in 1997. I was living in New York at the time, and being a bit of a house head, had been quite resistant to buying so-called “disco classics”. By then I had already heard Todd Terry’s sampling of Lola Blank’s crazed-girl-on-helium rendition of the “Go Bang” lyric, which appeared on “Bango (To The Batmobile),” a 1988 house track. I only got to hear the version that appears on the“24 → 24 Music” album – which is titled “#5 Go Bang!” – later on.
Arthur Russell was responsible for a whole lot of outstanding music. Why did you choose “Go Bang! #5″ over other of his songs? What makes it so important for you?
The first thing I should probably say is that “#5 Go Bang!” appeared on an album by Dinosaur L, not an album by Arthur Russell. Of course Arthur (if I can call him by his first name; at times I feel as though I know him, even though we never met) was the key figure behind Dinosaur L, and pulled all of the appearing musicians together. But Arthur was dead-set on the idea of collaboration, and believed that the relationships he formed with other musicians were meaningful, so he introduced different names for the different line-ups he formed.
Why is “Go Bang” so important? That’s the record that I’ve always thought his most complete, inasmuch as it seemed to capture Arthur’s utopian desire to combine the various sounds of downtown New York – disco, punk/new wave, loft jazz, and the post-minimalist form of compositional music known as new music – in a single piece of music. The record also combines complexity and simplicity; it contains scores of ideas, yet never relinquishes the centrality of the groove. I like all sorts of music, but I particularly like music that manages to combine these elements. I could have also opted instead for “Kiss Me Again”, “Platform On The Ocean”, the “World of Echo” album, “This Is How We Walk On the Moon”. “World of Echo” is an extraordinary piece of work, “Kiss Me Again” gets better by the listen. But “Go Bang” is the one that stands out, especially in terms of dance floor dynamics, plus Arthur was happy with the “Go Bang” turned out, whereas he hated the final mix of “Kiss Me Again” and seemed to feel awkward about the obscure quality of “World of Echo”. Read the rest of this entry »
The first one is by Rinder and Lewis – “Lust”, which is kind of a space disco prototype so to say. For 1977 it was kind of a landmark record I guess.
For 1977, yes. I suppose Rinder and Lewis were a very prolific production team in the 70s and 80s. They made an awful lot of records, a lot of albums. That’s probably one of their most moody tracks. A lot of their stuff has got a 1920s, big band, Charleston influence to it. But I like a lot of their stuff. But some of it is unusual in its arrangement. That one’s got a slightly more mystical vibe to it.
Would you say they tried to explore their field a bit further with this record? You mentioned that a few of the other productions had certain influences, like the latin stuff for example. But this one is really something different, almost science fiction.
Yes, but that’s quite different from the rest of the “Seven Deadly Sins” album. I reckon it wasn’t a track that was made to be a hit. It was probably considered an album track. But with that weird bit in the middle with the glockenspiel, it goes into a sort of devil bit about two thirds of the way through. Which is very out of character with the rest of the record. But what I think is interesting about that is that you don’t get those sort of unexpected bits in records now. I guess when musicians are making records, it’s very different to when DJs are making records. Now, when DJs make records they just tend to have the same stuff going throughout the track, it just loops round and round. Maybe there might be some changes, but there’s nothing drastic coming in really loud. A bad DJ produced record might just be a bit boring, whereas a bad record from the 70s might have a great verse and a really terrible chorus. Or you might have something really cheesy. A lot of records now are just rhythm tracks made by DJs for mixing and whatever, whereas then you might have records that have got loads in them, maybe too much. But the reason that they’re not great is maybe because they’ve got too much in them. They might have some great musical parts, but the vocals are crap. I think I’m digressing a little bit. A lot of Rinder and Lewis stuff – have you got that album “Discognosis”?
No, I know the THP Orchestra stuff which I found really good.
Yeah, and there’s El Coco and Le Pamplemousse. I like that track. It’s always very well orchestrated, they always had a bit of money to make the records. It wasn’t done on a shoestring budget, they must have sold pretty well. I think El Coco’s “Cocomotion” is one of my favourites by them as well. Obviously a lot of the stuff on AVI was produced by them, they were putting out a lot of music. They must have lived in the studio in 76, 77, 78, 79.
This is also a really good example for what you can do if you’re a good arranger – the arrangements they did are really complex and beautiful. Is that something you miss? You talked of modern rhythm tracks and functionality – I think it’s hard to pull off these days because you don’t have budgets for studio work…
Yeah of course. I suppose you have to think, this is now and that was then. Record sales were much higher, I suppose disco was like r’n’b was 5 years ago in terms of its worldwide popularity. So there was a lot more money, obviously there weren’t downloads or people copying CDs. I don’t know what the sales figures were like of something like Rinder and Lewis, but it probably sold half a million or something like that. It’s a completely different time, in terms of being able to get a string section in for your record. I’ve paid for string sections before, but to be honest with you what I’ve found is a string section with 30-40 people is so different to a string section with 7 or 8 people. I’ve only been able to afford 6 or 7 people. It isn’t really a string section! Nowadays, with CD-ROMs and whatever you can make something that sounds pretty good – not the same – but pretty good with just samples. To really make it sound a lot better, you need a 30-40 piece, big room orchestra. People at Salsoul and a lot of them classic disco records had that big proper string arrangement. Also, paying someone to do the arrangement isn’t cheap if you get someone good. Very difficult to do that now. So yeah, I do miss it. But there’s no point missing something, it’s like saying “Oh, I wish they were still making Starsky and Hutch”.
As long as a glimpse of an orchestra won’t do, it doesn’t make sense?
I think the only it could make sense is if George Michael decides to make a disco album, or someone like that. He could afford it. Or Beyonce. Some big star. But your average dance record – I suppose Jamiroquai had some live strings on some of his stuff. But then again, he was selling a lot of records.
Doobie Brothers – What A Fool Believes (Warner Bros. Inc., 1979)
“What a Fool Believes” by the Doobie Brothers, which is a merger of rock and disco.
There’s other tracks, like the Alessi Brothers “Ghostdancer”… I suppose that just shows how popular disco music must have been at the time when people like The Doobie Brothers and Carly Simon were actually making disco records. I suppose it’s the same as nowadays people making a record with a more r’n’b type beat. Or at the beginning of house music, there were lots of pop acts making house records. I was listening to a best of ABBA a few years ago. It started off sort of glam-rock, sort of sweet, like Gary Glitter, that sort of production. And by the late seventies their stuff had got pretty disco-ey. And by 82 it was folky. So I think the disco beat was just featuring on a lot of productions by acts who just wanted to make a contemporary sounding record. That’s probably why a lot of the American rock establishment hated disco so much. It wasn’t just that it was there: their favourite acts were making disco records! They hated the fact the Rolling Stones made disco records, it just wasn’t allowed.
But the thing is, that when the disco boom ended, a lot of the rock acts who made disco records acted like they never did! They deserted it pretty quickly.
Yeah, once it became uncool they pretended they never liked it, it wasn’t their idea and all that. I tried to once do a compilation album of that sort of stuff. But it’s too difficult to license it all. They’re all on major labels, they’re all big acts, and it’s very hard to license that stuff. In fact I’d go as far as to say it’s impossible: just too difficult and expensive.
Was it just because of budget reasons, or because the acts didn’t want to be reminded of what they did in that area?
I think often those big acts have to approve every compilation album license. A lot of the time, for the people who work in the compilation album license department, it’s easier for them to say no than to write to the management of Supertramp or Queen. And often, if they do see a title that has disco in it, they will say no. And a lot of them won’t license the Rolling Stones to a comp that’s got a projected sales figure of less than half a million. There’s so many reasons why it’s problematic. You could do it, but you’d have to leave off so many tracks, there would hardly be any point doing it. I did have a chat with a major label about doing it and that was one that owned quite a lot of them. But it’s just so difficult. They want to see a big marketing budget, they want to see you spend a hundred grand on television adverts. Otherwise they just go, why are we on this compilation album?
I think it’s a shame really, there were so many good disco records done by major artists…
Yeah. I like a lot of those things. I’m doing this compilation for BBE which is maybe a similar thing, just it’s not all well known acts. People like Fleetwood Mac, they did that track “Keep On Going”, those sort of things. I guess it’s blue-eyed rocky soul. Quite danceable… it’s not all disco, but it’s not really rock either. More black music based. I always think, if you look at the back of a rock album and it’s got someone playing bongos on it, it’s worth checking out. Read the rest of this entry »
Im Gespräch mit Sven von Thülen über “Into The Dragon” von Bomb The Bass (1988).
Wie und wann bist Du auf Bomb The Bass gekommen? Als “Beat Dis” rauskam?
Ja, “Beat Dis” war ja ein Riesenhit, der ist auch an einem damals 11 oder 12-jährigen wie mir nicht vorbeigegangen. Es gab gleich neben unserer Schule eine Bibliothek, in der man Kassetten und CDs ausleihen konnte. Da gab es auch “Into The Dragon”. Ausleihen, überspielen und ab in den Walkman. Das Cover von “Beat Dis” war auch der Grund, warum ich damals für eine Weile mit einem Smiley-T-Shirt rumgerannt bin. Vollkommen ahnungslos.
Warum hast Du Dir “Into The Dragon” ausgesucht? Ist es für Dich exemplarisch für diese Phase 1987/88, als sich junge englische Produzenten mit sehr viel Enthusiasmus auf die Möglichkeiten des Samplings stürzten? Was für Qualitäten besitzt “Into The Dragon” für Dich?
Als das Album rauskam, war ich wie gesagt noch ziemlich jung. Und ich hätte es wahrscheinlich auch nicht mitbekommen, wenn es nicht in den Charts gewesen wäre. Ich habe mir damals auch die ersten Maxis von S’Express und Coldcut gekauft und auch einige von den kommerzielleren Acid-House-Samplern, die es gab, mit so Sachen wie “Jack To The Sound Of The Underground” von Hithouse oder D-Mobs “We Call It Acieed”. England war ein viel wichtigerer Pop-Bezugspunkt für mich als zum Beispiel die USA. Es gab zu der Zeit immer dienstags auf Bremen 4 die BBC Top 40 im Radio und im Anschluss die Top 20 der Independent Charts. Das waren meine wichtigsten musikalischen Quellen. Da hab ich zum ersten Mal A Guy Called Gerald gehört, The KLF , Inner City, Sugarcubes oder auch Pop-Punk wie Snuff. Dass ich mich gerade für “Into The Dragon” entschieden habe, hat unter anderem damit zu tun, dass das Album quasi meinen Einstieg in Club-Musik darstellt und es musikalisch Vieles vorweg genommen hat, was mir später wieder wichtig wurde. Damals konnte ich das alles gar nicht dechiffrieren. Bomb The Bass steht also exemplarisch für diese Zeit, deren Platten ich viele Jahre später unter ganz anderen Vorzeichen noch mal neu entdeckt habe. Wobei: Meine “Into The Dragon”-Kassette habe ich schon mit besonderer Hingabe geliebt. Die Tracks hatten diese unglaubliche Energie. Ich hatte ja keine Ahnung, was genau ein Sample ist, aber dieses collagenhafte hatte etwas von Achterbahn fahren, und das hat mich fasziniert. Das es irgendwie nach HipHop (damals sagte man noch Rap, oder täuscht mich da meine Erinnerung?) klang, aber viel elektronischer und bunter war, trug auch zur Faszination bei. Ich hab ein paar Mal ältere Kids zu “Megablast” und “Beat Dis” breaken sehen, das passte in meinen Augen wie Arsch auf Eimer. Das Album hat für mich auch nichts von seinem unmittelbaren, sehr jugendlichen Charme verloren. Es ist wirklich gut gealtert.
Wie andere Pioniere vor allem amerikanischer Großstadtherkunft, mag sich auch Francois Kevorkian nicht mehr auf den Lorbeeren seiner älteren und jüngeren Vergangenheit voller Studio- und Clubgroßtaten ausruhen, auch wenn sie sich quer durch die Musikgeschichte ziehen. Wie schon seine letzte Mix-Kompilation „Frequencies“, beweist auch dieser opulente Dreierpack, dass er sich auch prima als Legendenfaktor in den Line-ups der internationalen Ravepaläste und Festivalzelte macht und seine Erfahrungswerte im Umgang mit Fluss und Klang sich nicht mit heutigen Peaktime-Maßstäben reiben müssen. So bleibt man around. Leider gibt es von ihm aber auch vergleichbar viele Studio- und Clubgroßtaten, die diese Selektion an Originalität in den Schatten stellen, so zielsicher und klangerfahren er den Hit Sound of Now hier auch verweben mag. Wenn einem so dezidiert „Masterpiece“ entgegenprangt, ist man etwas verwundert ob der vielen zeitgenössischen Allzweckwaffen, deren Zeitlosigkeit sich in vielen Fällen wohl noch beweisen muss. Ich will gar nicht unterstellen, dass ihm das Geknarze, Gefräse und zuweilen Getrance nicht auch am Herzen liegt, aber diese Kompilation nimmt immer dann an Intensität und Überzeugungskraft zu, wenn er sich auf deepes, dubbiges, eklektizistisches und auch klassisches Terrain begibt. Zwiespältig.
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