Trevor Jackson introduced me to the station and the idea to do shows with whatever you want to do was really tempting. So I signed the contract and never looked back.
Hello Finn, pleasure to speak to you. What did you have for breakfast today and what does an ordinary day your life look like in these times?
I made myself a sandwich with cheese and Salame Milano, with a bit of of French dressing. I did not start baking bread or similar. I am happy with what I can get at the supermarket, and I have plenty around. I am a nocturnal person, my daughter too. But as soon as she is asleep I often watch a movie or a series with my wife and when my wife is asleep as well, I head over to my study to work, listen to music or read. If I have no meetings scheduled the next day I do not have to get up that early so I mostly stay up late. Once I get up I fix myself a small breakfast, read the news and then start working again, correspondence or whatever else needs to be done. I try to have that finished until my wife and daughter come back from work and school, and then we have lunch. Then either work, homework and spending some time together. I did not get infected so far, but I am aware that it will happen eventually. I am not afraid of it and vaccinated, but I try to avoid it as good as I can because I do not want to spread it further. So apart from occasional meetings for work or with friends and getting necessary things for our household I am mostly staying in. I have read Joseph Heller’s Catch 22 yet again, and I agree with its protagonist Yossarian that there are plenty of people out there conspiring to kill me, and I am determined to not let them. To stay fit I use a rowing machine on a daily basis.
Speaking of “these times“, we are now almost two years in this pandemic, clubs open, clubs close, some have to close forever, some are able to survive, but nobody knows yet what price the scene, the clubs have to pay. How have you been keeping up with the ever-changing situation and how do you wish to be supported by the government in “these times“?
It is of course very frustrating. We worked very hard to keep Paloma alive, and when we were allowed to open again it felt like a reward for all our efforts. Then after just a few weeks it was all over again, and it was total letdown. I will not complain about the governmental support. It was kind of remarkable how chaotic it was organized though, and in many ways the pandemic also affected the previously indestructible myth of German efficiency very severely, but at least we had support, other countries were not as well off. Generally, I was not as optimistic as others about how the pandemic would progress, but I was very disappointed that this winter turned out to be even worse than the one before, especially because I feel that this situation could have been avoided by more timely and efficient measures. I was sure from the start of the pandemic that clubs would be way down the crisis management priority list, but I get angry when people not do their best to bring this to an end, and if it was only to show solidarity with others more affected by the situation. I was not exactly surprised that parts of our society would only care about their own good, but I was surprised to what extent. What optimism I had when the vaccinations began to roll out faded as soon as I realized that a good and necessary deal of the German population would refuse it. These days, I stick to the actual facts in the news that seem reliable and valid for how things will potentially develop, and I try to keep away from all the opinions flying around that do not help one bit to change this for the better. I do not want to discuss the pandemic anymore with people who mostly only display their own selfishness, or cowardice, or doubt, or fear. To fight a pandemic of this scale is a group effort, and I am really tired at this point of those that do not want to act accordingly. What effects all this will have is still speculation, as we are absolutely not through yet, but I am sure politics and the economies will eventually recover but there will remain a trauma, in terms of both physical and psychological conditions, and not anybody will be able to overcome it so soon. The price to pay? We all will pay a price. But better to pay a price than to die.
How does the uncertainty these days influence your booking behavior for the Paloma?
Well, you make the best of what you can do, and you try to act responsibly. We had to cancel a lot of dates, and when we learnt that we can open again we tried to catch up with all those cancellations first, instead of starting from scratch with everything. But we were expecting to open sooner, and when we could not do that we had to postpone and reschedule whole monthly programs, a process that we are unfortunately in again right now. But we were in constant crisis management mode since March 2020 and after all this time we would surely not give up now if we are not forced to do so. Of course there is also always some level of uncertainty when you book for a club, and now that level was quite enormous, but we are a good team and we prevailed, so far. It is frustrating that we also had to cancel some gigs again for now, but we will try to make them happen at a later point, which will be a challenge too. Other than that you also have to adapt in ways that you were not used to before. For example we priorized DJs that had no other income like a day job or similar, which was not a point before DJs had a regular income from playing out. Or we were very strict to meet all the Corona restrictions at the door, and bookings fell through because the DJs did not have the necessary documents to enter the club, and other DJs were not fully vaccinated or not intending to get vaccinated at all. The majority of DJs understood and respected that we were so strict though, only a minority did not. This also applies to our audience. Most guests were glad that we did our best to make our club as safe as possible, and brought up the patience for all the according door proceedings.
Following the question before, do you think that in general clubs’ bookings have or will change due to the pandemic and do you wish for a renaissance of the local DJs taking over club nights instead of international ones?
There was a divide in DJ culture in terms of fees and gig count before the pandemic, and I have this theory that it will grow. There are top tier DJs that fly around the world and earn silly money, mid tier DJs that can live from DJing, but with a certain level of uncertainty, and low tier DJs that already needed other sources of income before to make a living, with way more uncertainty. Now the low tier DJs switched to other sources of income for good because they had to, more than before. Either they were just starting out to get a reputation, or they were satisfied with just playing out. Of course the current situation is a blow, but they might be able to carry on, even if it requires to start all over again. The top tier DJs either did not interrupt their program anyway during the last two years, or they now benefit from the situation, because most bigger clubs are so in debt since closing that they probably play safe and book only headliners they think will guarantee a full capacity. In this case the mid tier DJs are worse off, because they are caught in the middle. They do not pull enough people to fill the bigger clubs and they are too costly for the smaller clubs. I really hope I am wrong, but as soon as the clubs could reopen last year, you could well observe this pattern. And this of course also applies to these hopes that the local scene will play a more vital role. Doors were open again, and you could often see that DJs were flown in again, the DJ middle class was kind of diminished and some local DJs did not get more than the function of a cheap filler. I do not really think that there will be a renaissance of local DJs. I suppose as soon as bookings can be regular again, most clubs will fall back to old habits, or even worse. Of course there are clubs like Paloma with a limited size and accordingly limited budget, and they will always book local talent because they cannot afford regular and costly travel logistics. But they do not determine the business, and they also might not be able to pay your rent.
When speaking of club culture in the northern hemispheres of Germany people speak of the “three Ps’ – meaning the Pudel club in Hamburg, Panoramabar and Paloma. In a nutshell, what unites these three nightlife institutions and ideally how can clubs cross-fertilize each other?
I must say that I have not heard of these three P’s in unison before, but I think it is rather flattering. Pudel and Paloma sure are comparable in some ways. Both have a hub function in their local scenes and support a local network and fresh talents, and their musical agenda is similar in terms of quality and content, the size is similar as well, as is the attitude, and both share the same graphic designer, the wonderful Alex Solman. Panoramabar sure is a different and bigger thing, and a whole other status, but I think what unites all three clubs is that they are all very special places. I had memorable nights in all three both as a DJ and as a guest and that is probably the most common denominator. The best way to use similarities is of course to work together, which we do, particularly with Pudel, with which we have regular exchange. But we do not only invite DJs from the Pudel network to Paloma, we also have nights with Panoramabar DJs, regular ones and residents. I have a whole lot of respect for both clubs, each in their own way, and I think we can all benefit from each other, and we do.
Let’s leave the club topic behind a bit. When speaking of you and looking at your vita the word versatile is basically inevitable. You DJ, you run the label Macro with Stefan Goldmann, you do the bookings for the Paloma and Monarch clubs, you used to write for various magazines and you worked at famous record store Hard Wax. How have all these different approaches to music helped you to overcome the past months and what’s your preferred field of working?
Well, music is just really very important to me. I listen to music every day, and even more in the last months than usual, which really helped me to stay sane. Everything I do for a living is connected with music, and as you mentioned I do and did a lot of different things. Music just makes me happy, and what makes me even happier is when I am able to spread music that I think is worth more attention than just mine. My preferred field of working is always the one that helps me to achieve that best. DJing was the first and is still vital in that aspect, the label allows me to explore ideas other than just my own, as does the booking. I do not write as much anymore as I did in the past, but if it is a good topic and I can find the time I still enjoy it. I could also support a lot of music at Hard Wax for some years, but I took up booking while I was still working at the store, and I had never done booking before, just getting booked myself, and at some point I realized that I could provide said support more efficiently with the booking, so I decided to leave. But it is all kind of in flux, and always has been. I have been fortunate about opening doors, so there might be another step in the future. But I am really very happy with what I am doing right now.
What two other attributes suit your character and how do they support the before mentioned field of working?
I would say I am curious. I can be very enthusiastic, but I also lose interest quite quickly. I can be quite thorough if I am interested enough. I do not like routine. All of these proved to be quite helpful in terms of creativity.
Coming back to your versatile being, musically you are also quite versatile. Firstly, would you say that musical versatility is something that comes with age as at some point people stop being as stubborn or nerdy? Secondly, what does the first thing you pay attention to when listening to new music and add to your “playlist“?
Hm, I am often suspected of being a nerd, my glasses do not help there, but I do not really feel like one. Of course I am aware that I know way more about music than the average listener, but for me that is a natural process. I just listen to so much music that it would be plain weird if I would not gather some knowledge about it. And I like to learn about the context of what I am hearing, and I can save the information in my memory, which is the same with literature or movies. The versatility sure is a result of both my wide interests, and my longterm occupation with being out to discover. As anybody else, I have some preferences, you can identify them all if you follow me, but I could never stop with what I already knew and then just maintain it. Basically I am open to anything in terms of creativity, if I investigate it and it is not for me I just move on to the next, but so far I never felt like stopping. Maybe that is the stubbornness you were suggesting, in my case. What I pay attention to first while at it is probably ideas, and a an artistic signature. Mostly I am hoping for something completely new to me, sometimes I am content with a fresh approach to things I already know and like.
Have you noticed a change in taste over the pandemic due to the fact that clubs were closed or open for not so long?
My listening behaviour patterns kind of strengthened. Even before the pandemic I listened to less club music, because it was all around me anyway. That kind of music did not quite solely become a commitment connected to work, but it was heading there. I began to reserve my time off work for other music, sounds that do not have to fulfill a purpose of being useful with what I am doing for a living. Apart from checking music styles I had not explored before I am also always willing to revise verdicts I made on some point about music I checked earlier on, or even whole genres. Sometimes you are not in the mood to get it, sometimes you are just ignorant, sometimes it does not feel right at the time. And taste should not be too static, else you just miss out. I do not mind if music clicks with a delay of even years, if it clicks. What I also had to notice is that the older you get the more you look to your past. I revisited some music of my youth, and it still clicked too.
What have been your three favorite musical findings over the past weeks?
1) German trap or drill music is much smarter than I thought. 2) I may read as many books about Krautrock as I can get a hold of, but I will never like the bulk of it more. 3) I will probably never have the patience for ambient music.
What has kept your relationship with electronic music passionate and what was one of the tracks that made you fall for it in the first place?
I love how much music that was created years ago still sounds like the future, and is still being processed. I am convinced at some point it will all implode and make way for something completely unheard of, and I am looking very much forward to completely not getting it. But I will sure try to. As for love at first listening probably I Feel Love by Donna Summer or Das Model by Kraftwerk, off the radio as a kid. Boring as it may be, I am old enough to claim that, though it probably was Popcorn by Hot Butter. Honourable mention: LFO. I used to claim in several heated debates that LFO was the first electronic music that really sounded like the future. I still stand by that.
What’s a musical extravaganza you’d pay for if money was not a thing?
It might be more an availability issue than money, but I would love to dance to Klaus Stockhausen at least one more time, all night long. Paloma would be a fine place for that, but any place would do. He is still the best DJ I ever heard, and I heard many.
Speaking of money, a lot of renowned artists played at the MDLBeast Soundstorm festival in Saudi Arabia a few weeks back. Does money deprave some people’s character that they play for controversial governments or is this simply the price the scene has to pay due to the pandemic development over the past months/ years? What is your opinion on that topic?
I think it is problematic to single out that event as an indicator for all that is wrong in club culture. Of course that festival was quite questionable, but then again so many events are, if you take a closer look. The more money is flying around the more it is likely that the source of the money is questionable. But it is a business. As long as there is a market for it, it will keep happening, and it happened before so many times, out in the open as with that festival, or not. I was surprised by a few names on the lineup, but I think on a certain level there just are some skeletons in the closet everywhere. Not that there are necessarily no or less skeletons on a lower level, mind. I must admit that it does not bother me too much, it is like a parallel universe for me. I know some people from earlier on who achieved that status, and they made their decision for success, and now they have a business to run and the according obligations, and others may need more and more money because they also spend a lot of money, for whatever. Of course this kind of circuit is decadent and the money is obscene, but there are so many alternative ways of doing events. If you feel this is depraved, you may support the other, or do your own. But you will find depraved characters everywhere you go.
Which of your morals could you never throw overboard or are non-negotiable?
I am no saint, and I made my mistakes. But I try to neither hide nor repeat them. But I am really allergic to hypocrisy, especially if it is a strategy.
After so many years in the scene/ business what piece of advice would give to your younger self?
Do what you really want to do, but do never behave like an idiot.
What’s a superpower you wish you had and how would you use it?
I would love to be able to make everything that is fun healthy. I would use it all the time, everywhere, and for everybody.
In Italien ist Clubmusik schon seit der klassischen Ära von Disco in den 1970ern integraler Bestandteil von la dolce vita. Seit damals wird mit offenen Armen empfangen, was von den nordamerikanischen Metropolen herüberschwappt. In Italien wird der musikalische Input mit elastischem Verhältnis zu Urheberrechten in etwas umgedeutet, das dem Lebensgefühl an Adria und Mittelmeer eher entspricht. Kopieren lohnt sich künstlerisch und vor allem kommerziell. Daran hat sich bis heute kaum etwas geändert: Der lockere Umgang der Italiener mit Originalmaterial ist kreativ und zugleich berüchtigt, unzählige halbseidene Coverversionen und Bootlegs zeugen davon.
Man muss aber ebenso konstatieren, dass stets etwas Originäres dabei entstanden ist. Italo-Disco-Musik der achtziger Jahre ist das Kardinalbeispiel hierfür. Was zunächst in Resteuropa noch als billige Plastikversion von Disco verschrien war und als Musik, zu der eher die Jugendlichen aus einfachen Verhältnissen in der lokalen Diskothek den Disco Fox tanzten, mutierte schnell zu einem internationalen Einfluss mit erstaunlicher Langlebigkeit und Hipness-Faktor.
Ein Grund dafür ist sicherlich der unbedarfte Charme der italienischen Musik, ein anderer ist aber auch die Innovationsfreude ihrer Produzent:innen. So verwundert es nicht, dass die Pioniertage von House Music ab Mitte der 1980er in Chicago und Detroit gespickt waren mit Importplatten aus Italien, die in den Playlists wichtiger US-Radiosender und den entsprechenden Clubs tiefe Spuren hinterlassen haben. Es gelangte quasi etwas in die USA zurück, das sich sehr von dem unterschied, was man zuvor nach Europa exportiert hatte.
Und mit House entlässt man dann abermals eine gewichtige neue Komponente in das Nachtleben der Alten Welt, und wieder wurde sie gerade in Italien besonders schnell begeistert verarbeitet. Die Genese von Italo House ab Ende der 1980er folgt dabei den bewährten Mustern der Jahre zuvor, was nicht weiter verwunderlich ist, denn viele Protagonisten, wie etwa Ricky Montanari und Claudio Rispoli alias Moz-Art waren als DJs und Produzenten schon seit der Disco-Ära aktiv und gingen bei der Adaption von House ähnlich zweckorientiert vor.
Äußerst hilfreich war, dass die italienische Musikindustrie über Jahre Import- und Exportstrukturen aufgebaut hatte, mit der man in Sachen der schnelllebigen Clubmusik stets vorneweg war. Der erste italienische House-Track, der über die Landesgrenzen hinaus Tanzflächen eroberte, ist „Ride on Time“ von Black Box. Seine Musik funktioniert vor allem so gut, weil sie dreist Bestandteile zusammenklaubt, die sich schon vorher bestens bewährt haben. Man kopierte die einprägsamen Pianoakkorde und synthetischen Grooves der frühen US-House-Produktionen wie etwa von Marshall Jeffersons „Jungle Wonz“ und stellte ein Model ans Mikrofon, welches in Videoclips und Playbackauftritten zu der ungefragt übernommenen Originalstimme von Loleatta Holloways Disco-Klassiker „Love Sensation“ (1980) mimt. Wie man damit durchkommen kann, obwohl der Song zu einem beträchtlichen Hit wurde? Ganz einfach, „Ride on Time“ klingt derart umwerfend, dass man erst viel später Fragen wegen Plagiatsvorwürfen stellte.
Das Erfolgsrezept ist so simpel wie effizient. Instinktsicher werden die nachhaltigen Elemente des Originals isoliert, die auf der Tanzfläche Ekstase auslösen, produziert sie ekstatischer, aber auch gefälliger und lässt ordentlich mediterrane Sonnenwärme rein. Dann werden etliche Veröffentlichungen nachgeschoben, die mehr oder weniger nach dem gleichen Muster funktionieren, und schon bald hat man ein eigenes Genre erschaffen, dass sich bis heute ungebremst in zahllosen Variationen zwischen Eurodance, UK Breakbeats und balearischen Großraum-Clubhits fortpflanzt.
Italienische Clubmusik muss im großen Rahmen funktionieren, was durchaus ein wichtiges Kriterium ist, denn italienische Clubs sind in der Regel groß. Sehr groß. Sie zeugen von einer langen, stolzen Tradition der Dekadenz und Maßlosigkeit, des ganz breiten Pinselstrichs inklusive Stuck-Säulen auf der Tanzfläche, Außenpools mit Panoramablick und absurden VIP-Bereichen. Man kann diese Etablissements vom Weltall aus erkennen, und den Autokorso dorthin auch. In solchen Clubs muss der DJ klotzen, und nicht kleckern. Nichts und niemand darf das pompöse Gesamtbild mit kleinen Gesten und kleinen Ansprüchen und kleiner Kunst verunreinigen. Nichts bleibt dem Zufall überlassen. Die für Italo House maßgeblichen und größtenteils an der italienischen Riviera ansässigen Clubs wie „Ethos Mama“, „Diabolik’a“, „Vae Victis“, „Cocorico“ und „Peter Pan“ haben eine Kapazität im großzügig drei- bis vierstelligen Bereich: Podest-Tänzer:innen, MCs und DJs, die sich keine Fehler erlauben können. Vor diesem Hintergrund ist es umso erstaunlicher, dass der Sound in der Blütezeit von Italo House ab 1990 nicht so klingt, als müsste er erheblichem kommerziellen Druck standhalten.
An Italo House kann man sicherlich die wichtigen Evolutionsstufen der internationalen House Music ablesen, und die erste Zündstufe Ende der 1980er Jahre ist eine Sturm-und-Drang-Phase, in der bedingungslose Euphorie und Pianos regierten. Der wirklich kreative Schwung setzt aber um 1990 ein, als in den USA der House-Sound deeper wurde. Die italienischen DJs und Produzenten mussten ein gehöriges Erweckungserlebnis gehabt haben, als etwa Larry Heard und Marshall Jefferson versonnenere Tracks produzierten oder etwas später in New York auf dem wichtigen Label-Triumvirat Strictly Rhythm, Nu Groove und Nervous Tracks von Wayne Gardiner, Gijo Rosario, Ronald & Rheji Burrell und Roger Sanchez veröffentlicht wurden. Diese Musik postuliert eine deutliche Abkehr von funktionalen Tanzflächen-Imperativen. Italo House ist introspektiv, mit sanft pulsierenden Grooves und vor allem mit bittersüß-emotionalen Flächen ausgestattet und wird alsbald als Ambient und Mellow House in den Kanon aufgenommen. Bereits 1989 schickten Angelo Albanese und Massimino Lippoli den sich sehr großzügig bei Manuel Göttschings „E2-E4“ bedienenden Clubhit „Sueño Latino“ auf den Weg.
Eine Blaupause für italienische House-Produktionen, mit denen sich jeder Club in eine weltumarmende Utopie von Glückseligkeit mit Meerblick verwandeln lässt und jeder urbane Alltagskampf inmitten weniger azurblauer Umgebungen augenblicklich in Vergessenheit gerät. In den Studios arbeiten nun beispielsweise Carlo Troya alias Don Carlos, Claudio Coccoluto und Enrico Mantini an Musik, die sich anhört wie ein Sprung ins glitzernde Wasser eines sonnendurchfluteten Swimmingpools. Und wenn man am anderen Ende wieder auftaucht, sieht man schöne Menschen in luftiger Bekleidung und schweißtreibenden Bewegungen, und da kommt auch schon der nächste Drink. Die meisten Italo-Produzenten sind erfahrene DJs, sie wissen genau, was sie selbst wollen, und vor allem, was ihr Publikum will. Und dafür ist jedes Mittel recht. Auf Labels wie Irma, Palmares, DFC, UMM und Calypso zelebrieren sie eine hemmungslose Opulenz, die bis knapp vor die Kitschgrenze stößt, die Pianos sind immer noch prominent im Mix, bloß etwas weicher gestimmt, gesampelte oder eingesungene Stimmen vermitteln Botschaften von Liebe und Zusammenhalt, die gleichermaßen wahrhaftig wie gelogen sind, und über allem thronen die wärmsten und weichsten Flächen, in die man sich jemals hat reinfallen lassen können.
Es gibt kaum Clubmusik, die mehr Eskapismus und Hedonismus ausstrahlt, mehr Harmonie anbietet und mehr Glück verspricht als Italo House in den 1980er und frühen 1990er Jahren. Aber die Realität hat noch längst jede Illusion zur Strecke gebracht, und Italo House erging es nicht anders. Viele Prachtclubs an der Adria wirkten irgendwann wie Relikte und mussten schließen. Tänzer:innen brauchten andere Attraktionen, Clubkultur wollte mit neuen Trends gefüttert werden, DJs und Produzenten wollten sich nicht länger wiederholen. Die Spuren sind dennoch nicht mehr zu tilgen, und es war nur eine Frage der Zeit, bis die Revival-Zyklen wieder bei Italo House gelandet sind. Im Internetzeitalter ist eine musikalische Stilrichtung schnell erschlossen und über virtuelle Verkaufsportale verfügbar, und so treibt mittlerweile eine junge Generation die Gebrauchtpreise der Originale in den Bereich des Irrsinns, veröffentlicht aber auch Legendäres und Vergessenes neu. DJs, Produzenten und Publikum verfallen wieder den bewährt verführerischen Reizen dieser Musik.
Und es gibt auch wieder haufenweise aktuelle Produktionen, die den Faden da aufnehmen, wo man ihn Mitte der 1990er Jahre hat fallen lassen, mit frischen Ideen und modernen Mitteln. Etwa von den norwegischen Künstlern Skatebård und DJ Fett Burger und vom italienischen Produzenten Cosmic Garden (Nicola Loporchio). Das Leben wird nicht einfacher, die Sorgen werden nicht weniger, und dann kann man auch ruhigen Gewissens zu bewährten House-Mitteln greifen.
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